Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
849
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Posted - 2013.12.20 21:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:Actually it is 1003.9 DPS. Someone did the math before, 35.2 (base dmg for proto CR) X 1.15 (proficiency 5) X 1.24 (3 complex damage mods) X 20 (rounds per second) yep, at a simple 6.6 presses per second, which is easily achievable. Test yourself out here. F uck me that's ScR DPS. What even? SCR would require you to pull the trigger 50% faster for comparible DPS. Oh yeah and it overheats. So for 1000 DPS from a scrambler, you need to pull the trigger nearly 10 times a second (i.e. you need a turbo controller) Is that ScR base damage? Or is that with lvl 5 prof & 3 complex damage mods like you showed on the CR?
I don't know how much you've used the CR, but timing one burst after the next isn't something most can do consistently. You may tag two to three bursts in a row without missing the rhythm, but even a millisecond too early and you stutter the burst having to pull the trigger again, and too late and you automatically cut your DPS. You are talking about it's DPS as if everyone playing this game has a computer calculating exactly when to pull the trigger and pulling the trigger for them at exactly the right time to get maximum DPS. Apart from the handful of scrubs who use turbo controllers, this is FAR from the case. In addition, CR has to hit with all of it's rounds per trigger pull for it's DPS to count, so if your aim is even slightly to the side and your crosshairs slip off mid burst, part of your burst doesn't even register and just causes shield flares .
The ScR is an Alpha damage weapon. It's round hits with all it's damage at once damage, and it has a charged shot which can OHK many suits. It can also fully kill almost any suit with a charged shot plus 3-4 follow ups regardless of it's shield/armor ratio. The RoF for the ScR is high enough that there are very few people who can actually stutter it's fire pattern by accidentally firing too fast, and it's cooldown time is fast enough to move from one engagement to the next with very little delay (ask Arkena Wyrnspire, we all remember THOSE threads from a few weeks ago). On top of all that, it get's a larger than usual headshot multiplier, which means a headshot with a charged round is absolutely devastating (I've seen plenty of kb/m players using this to their advantage). It's basically a long range shotgun that overheats. And can be fired pretty much fired as fast as you can pull the trigger. And can be charged. And has insanely strong hip-fire aim assist.
Keep trying to make the CR out to be better, it's not working bro.
Ulthane: Now get off of my property, 'fore more pigeons come looking an' crap on me yard!
Overlord's: Ulath Bosse Zero
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
854
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Posted - 2013.12.21 23:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:1) In order to stutter the fire pattern of a CR(assuming this actually happens), you must be mashing the button faster than 6.6667 times per second, something you and your counter-parts deem unlikely.
2) I can unload the entire clip in 3 seconds, that means a DPS of 634 base. I have seen this happen many, many times.
3) that is the lvl 5 prof 5 3 dmg mod SCR (actually you can fire 11.75 times per second for 1320 DPS for 1.5secs and then 5 seconds of being defensless)
4) hitting with rounds applies to all weapons, not just the SCR. We are arguing damage potential. I could miss with all of the rounds of an AR or SCR and that is 0 DPS plus being defenseless on overheat for 5 seconds, doesn't change the amount of damage I can do with it.
5) Most people believe hip-fire for the SCR has been nerfed in 1.7
In the end though, the CR does 143% more DPS than an AR while having more range, nothing you say changes that. BOTH the SCR and the CR need a RoF nerf. 1) I never said any such thing. And stuttering the pattern means hitting the button too quickly, nullifying your next burst until you can let off of the trigger and pull it again. Not an actual in-game mechanic of stuttering it.
2) Yeah, because you totally have a timer counting just how fast it takes you to empty a clip, and it happens to be exactly 3 seconds. Video with proof + proof of no turbo controller, or it didn't happen.
3) 1320 in 1.5 seconds if you don't use your charged shot first, which is what almost every ScR user starts off a gun fight doing. How much does a charged shot do again with your math applied? Also, insane headshot bonus. Just sayin'
4) Hitting with rounds on the CR requires a lot more player tracking. You let off the trigger when your crosshair crosses the enemy with the ScR, you have to follow your target with the CR to make sure every round hits. Was pointing this out because pure DPM is not makes a weapon better, otherwise everyone in the game would be running around with assault forge guns. A lot of factors come into play when balancing one weapon with another. (such as the aforementioned headshot bonus and charged shot)
5) Most people are stupid. I recall back in Chromosome for like a month almost everyone in the game had thought that logis and assaults had gotten a strafe speed increase when the devs gave one to the scouts. Until the Dev's got on the forums and told them they were nuts and they had only improved the framerate a bit and tweaked the logi hit-box, assaults being entirely unaffected. Point is you can't suggest something happened off of popular forum opinion.
Now, as for that last statement, I'll say it again. The DPS of a weapon is not what makes it good. The DPS is an important factor, but so is accuracy, the level of challenge with the aim, the amount of tracking required, recoil, dispersion, damage dropoff, etc., etc., etc.. Changing the DPS of one or two weapons won't bring them in line with other weapons which is what is needed for balanced TTK, and balancing the other AR's against eachother will NOT fix all of the other weapons in this game, nor fix the TTK.
As for what I think should happen, I'll just quote myself from a few days ago:
Baal Omniscient wrote: ......all of the weapons in this game and most of the fits (probably even scouts) would be perfectly balanced if the proficiency damage increase and damage mods were removed. 1 complex mod plus proficiency 5 is a 25% damage increase to a weapon.
Want balance? Reduce the range and ammo carry capacities of all weapons, replace damage mods with weapon range amplifiers and ammo capacity upgrades, and change proficiency to something unique to each weapon instead of a flat damage buff. Even if you just made the damage buff work for the weapon's strength instead of a flat overall damage increase it would be worth it (i.e. SMG's & combat rifles get a buff to armor damage per proficiency level, ScR's and lasers get a buff to shield damage per proficiency level)......
The higher a weapon's DPS, the bigger the buff it gets from proficiency and damage mods. This would cut down the DPS of all weapons, however more than just that it would bring the higher DPS weapons down closer to the level of other weapons. In addition to that, it would make choosing whether to go for armor or shields much more important. You'd also have to choose whether you want to carry more ammo, have better range, have more HP, passive scan people within your scan radius, or have a larger scan radius. The low slots already have many options, high slots will finally have viable options.
If you couple this with fixing passive scanner modules (if you make them viable you also make range amplifiers viable, this giving you 5 viable high slot modules [shields, scan range amps, passive scan precision amps, ammo amps & range amps]) and a few other tweaks here and there, this game could be balanced for every weapon in the game instead of just for the AR's. Not to mention 10x more diverse in fitting options. It would also make dampners far more important with people passive scanning without giving "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED" messages.
Ulthane: Now get off of my property, 'fore more pigeons come looking an' crap on me yard!
Overlord's: Ulath Bosse Zero
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